thescarletwoman: (TV // TW :: Coffee Elitist)
[personal profile] thescarletwoman
Right. So more tie-in books were just announced today and I find myself getting more and more pissed off about things as it comes down the pike. I'm also tired of having to explain to people that the fact that Ianto's dead and not coming back is not the reason why I'm not looking forward to Torchwood: Miracle Day.

Unpopular opinions ahead.

I have a LOT of reasons.

One of which is my own, and something I don't want to/am not really allowed to talk about. Sorry to be the douche who says that, but still. X)

One of the other reasons has to do with the shift in production staff. I'm sorry, but I like Ray's designs and of what I've seen of fan production shots? I'm really pissed off about the coat. Like, a lot. But that's the costumer/cosplayer in me.

Another of the reasons is that the American cast is beginning to outweigh the British cast. I don't like it being set in the US. The heart and soul of Torchwood is in the UK and is in Cardiff. That's where it will always exist for me.

But the main reason why I'm upset about this is the change in tone of the series. Series one and two were all about the camp. It was fun SciFi that didn't take itself too seriously. It was just fun. You watched it, there were some real nail-biter episodes, but at the end of the day, the team stood together as they beat the bad guys/aliens/bad things/whatever. They may have been bruised and beaten, but they were together.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't want realism in my SciFi. SciFi is meant to be my escape. I'm a law student who is specialising in criminal law/international law. I spend my days reading about rape, torture, war crimes, murder, etc. At the end of the day, I want to come home, put my feet up and escape somewhere else. I don't want to turn on Torchwood and see the same world I just left behind in my law books. I want the fantasy. I want the team that survives against the odds and are together at the end of the day even if they shouldn't.

I don't want to watch a show where I'm afraid to start liking any of the characters for fear they're going to die off as soon as I like them. This doesn't apply to Ianto. It applies to Tosh and Owen as well. It applies to Rhys (who I'm certain has a big-ole Bullseye painted on his forehead right now). I want to be able to root for the good guys and know they'll be there at the end of the day and I can celebrate their victory.

That's why I'm not looking forward to Miracle Day. I will watch it for John and for Jack -- because I need to know. But if I can't stand it after an episode, I will turn it off with the knowledge that the Torchwood I know and love died a valliant death after the second series. I'll have the audio books and the tie-in novels and the radio plays to keep me company. And know that whatever comes after this point is no longer Torchwood, but this show that masquerades as it by being this high drama with a bit of SciFi thrown in as an afterthought.

I'm not turning off comments on this so I'm hoping there will be civility in the comments. Feel free to agree or disagree with me but be civil about it.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 06:27 pm (UTC)
cruisedirector: (disagree)
From: [personal profile] cruisedirector
I'm not sure I will ever watch Torchwood again after Children of Earth -- and it has NOTHING to do with Ianto's death, and everything to do with setting up families specifically so they can be brutally torn apart.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 06:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I'm pretty much hiding from Torchwood fandom completely at this point, but I'll poke my head out for a moment.

While I'm actually looking forward to the new series, I can absolutely see your reasoning. Although I admit that I've not so much been avoiding spoilers, as just not paying them any attention. So I don't really know any of the news about it right now.

For me, Torchwood has become a show that I've met some amazing friends through, but not one that I go out of my way to watch anymore. Which probably says more about how I feel than I can figure out how to express in words. I'll watch the new series, but I don't think I'll ever be as invested in it as I've become in other fandoms.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 06:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
You know I feel the same way. Lack of British cast combined with apparently an over-arching, seriously depressing storyline. I like angst, but I also like knowing the good guys win in the end. Which, lately in Torchwood, it seems like they do, but only after a loss that makes the win pointless. I couldn't really cheer at the end of Exit Wounds or CoE.

I like to pretend Owen and Tosh never died. It makes me feel better.

The new coat makes me sad. It looked like broadcloth to me in that one photo. Petty reason is petty, but I'm decidedly okay with that at the moment.

I'm not watching the new series, but you also knew that... I'm not going to waste my time. Instead I'll watch more Stargate XD

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
You have every right to feel the way you do! I'm not totally keeping up with all the MD news, I haven't even seen photos of this new coat. And it is very strange the US cast outweighs the UK. It's going to be very different....

I'm still very curious about the new series. I'll be tuning in.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
The battle's done and we kind of won, so we'll sound our victory cheer...

That line from Buffy sums it up a bit. I understand your reasoning. I will watch the new series, at least one time through - and am a bit excited - but you aren't the first friend who has stated they loved Torchwood for the escapes and Children of Earth left a bad taste in their mouth because of the harsh reality. I know I much prefer the first two seasons myself.

I'm glad you're standing up for yourself.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I might like a bit of adversity, and I'm the sort of loves it when the villains win for a change so that it isn't hella predictable, when a writer just blithely massacre their characters, their main characters, and still expect to have a show at the end of the day, all respect for any sort for them goes right out the window.

Not that I had much (if any) respect for Uncle rusty to begin with, when he brutally murdered Owen for attempting to be a fucking voice of reason and then brought him back only to be cannon fodder for self-hatred and self-torture, pretty much all of the tolerance that I had went right out the window. Everything else, all of it, was just salt in the wound.

My only honest thought on the new Torchwood is: Jane Espenson, you can do better. You can do so much better.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 08:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yeah, COE was so dark that it was genuinely unpleasant to watch, for me. And it sounds like the new series is going with that formula. I don't watch shit that I find unpleasant any more than I would repeatedly stick my finger into an electrical socket.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 08:21 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] bk_forever
Yes, exactly! I watch S.F. for escapism, NOT for realism. I loved the first 2 series for their campiness, and because anything was possible. I hated CoE for a lot of reasons, not least the fact that I've never liked political dramas. I also hatedthat everything I'd enjoyed in the first 2 series was quickly discarded or ignored - the Cardiff location, the rift, weevils, Hub, SUV, the pteranodon, all gone.

Much as I love JB, I'm not watching Miracle Day. CoE depressed the hell out of me and MD is apparently going to be darker, I want to be entertained, not depressed and sickened (as I was by Steven's graphic death). I, too, didn't like that families were created just to be ripped apart. I doubt any of those family members will ever even be mentioned again. There's just nothing left that I can feel excited about, the whole thing has gone rather flat for me.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 08:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I agree. There was so much I loved about the original show that you wouldn't think they could remove it all, but they seem to have managed it. I just miss it dreadfully

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Not watching - like the law student, real life is depressing enough. I don't want to come home from work and flip on a show that repeatedly tells me that the government is evil. OK, and then what. Oh, there's nothing out there. Thanks for letting me know that (over and over and over..)

RTD's view of the world is so nihilistic I don't know why I would want to watch. And if its darker than CoE does this mean they'll show two children with blood running out their facial orifices? Thanks but no thanks.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 10:13 pm (UTC)
ext_41651: Ianto shiny with mobile (woe)
From: [identity profile]
I feel the same about the US setting and cast. Why didn't they make a US spin off if RTD was so desperate for a Hollywood career? I always felt Wales and Cardiff were like a character in the show, and the local characters who featured every week. It was an inherent part of it. I feel like this new series will be something else entirely. I think if it's darker than CoE I can't see it lasting on BBC1. The fact they didn't make it themselves says a lot, I really wonder how much of a future it has to be honest.

I'm glad these new audio books sound fun, I won't bother with the novels as they are a set up for the new series. I don't know whether I'll watch it or not, because I'm actually a bit scared to, I don't want any more horrid scenes like Stephen's death scene burnt into my brain, I really wish I'd never seen that.

Yes there was nastiness in the first two series, and darkness, but it never felt like it was taking itself seriously, it was so tongue in cheek, as you say, that it made it fun, and a bit of silly fluff to enjoy.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-06 10:28 pm (UTC)
cookiegirl: (Jack&Gwen - Adrift)
From: [personal profile] cookiegirl
I can't express how much I agree with your thoughts on S3 vs S2. I want the fantasy, the camp-ness, the team-remaining-a-team thing. I will be watching S4, and am looking forward to it, because I couldn't bear to NOT watch, and I love Jack, Gwen and Rhys so much, but I'm also expecting to be disappointed, depressed and annoyed by it. Which is a shame.

(oh and I got here from the TW3 roundup... I'm not stalking you, honest!)

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-07 12:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Maybe that's just me, but I don't want realism in my SciFi. SciFi is meant to be my escape.
It's not just you. I agree. Hell, I haven't watched most of SPN this season cos last season wore me down with the storyline and then I don't agree with this current season even existing. Sometimes I just wanna watch a show without getting depressed by it or feeling worse than I already do. Sure, sometimes I'll watch a drama because I'm in the mood for it but not ALL THE TIME.

Granted I don't watch Torchwood anyway but from the sounds of it I'd only stick to S1 and S2. Yay camp. Boo for turning it into a show it originally wasn't going to be.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-07 01:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]

I want sci fi, not international politics with aliens. Dark and sad was fine because it was balanced with downright dark humor and a fun relationship between what I thought was an ensemble cast. And, yes, it wasn't about my country, but about somewhere else. I started researching Wales and learning all sorts of cool stuff that had nothing to do with the show.

Now it's just getting bigger and blowier. It's starting to remind me of summer blockbuster movies. Sure, they're great fun, but you see one, you've seen them all. S1 and S2 had something different, unique.


I keep hoping, though.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-07 01:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I'm still trying to figure out how you go darker and more disturbing than aliens strapping children to their bodies to use as a drug,a government casually giving up 10% of it's children, a man murdering his entire family while another murders his grandchild while its mother watches or even why you'd even want to. Is this what getting older does to you? Life becomes an endless stream of misery and torture and emptiness you have to repeat over and over and over ad nauseum.I mean I get it. Life sucks and humans suck and everything sucks and there's nothing in the hereafter to compensate because life sucks and being humans sucks and everything sucks. I used to think I was cynical, but apparently not enough for this.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-07 01:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I need to bookmark this to come back and read when I'm depressed by the whole horrible situation.

Interesting thought about families. I never really looked at it like that. Another black mark against COE.I have never actually watch Day 5 on a tv but have seen parts on the internet. I want to mail that disc to RTD.

As everyone here has said, I don't want dark and depressing. On twitter someone said well, if you watched from the beginning, you knew exactly what you were getting; death was involved from Day One.

It was just different. I didn't mind the death and tragedy because I liked everything else. It was quirky.

And part of it for me is Ianto. He was a character I came to really like. I shouldn't have to apoligize to anyone that I don't want to watch it without him.

I'm tired of people telling me to get over it.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-07 02:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Well. It's a spin off from Doctor Who. You sort of expect some goofy from a spin off from Doctor Who. Sarah Jane Adventures still has its good guy vs bad guy, root for the good guys, we'll win in the end - ness. Torchwood seems like it's trying to be Law and Order or CSI or something. Just with aliens.

Also, poo on them for abandoning the Rift! Queen Victoria, Tosh, Owen, Ianto and the Victorian Lesbians are *ALL* rolling in their graves.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-07 03:04 am (UTC)
jo02: scared-kitty (Default)
From: [personal profile] jo02
" I don't want to watch a show where I'm afraid to start liking any of the characters for fear they're going to die off as soon as I like them. "

Of all the many, many reasons I am not looking forward to, or going to watch, S4, this reason you list above, is the main one for me too. CoE hurt me badly for many reasons, not limited to Ianto being killed off, but the most enduring hurt is that it has made me too unwilling to get involved with good characters again because they can then be used against me.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-07 03:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Amen, Sister! ::squishes you::

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-07 10:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Yes, 'bereft of human warmth' is not something I'm terribly looking forward to either. And I might puke if I hear 'bigger and better' again.
It will be good to see Jack again though, but..I would prefer other circumstances.

(no subject)

Date: 2011-03-07 05:15 pm (UTC)
ext_204191: (Default)
From: [identity profile]
I don't think realism is bad for sci-fi, it's just a) not Torchwood, for reasons you mentioned, and b) mounts of corpses/caricature dictators/inked ravens of despair (clawing holes in the arse of the world's mind, natch) don't, in fact, equate realism.


thescarletwoman: (Default)
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